Slipstream - Leaders - in - formation

Slipstream Podcast 15 - Mike Pilavachi

Mike Pilavachi is the co-founder and leader of Soul Survivor based in Watford. He is also the Pastor of the Soul Survivor Watford church, led Soul in the City London 2004 and helped found the nationwide Hope 08 project. He is the author of many books including the recent Storylines with Andy Croft.

Here is a taster from Mike's interview:

What would you tell current leaders to do in order to help invest in young people and raise up next generation leaders?

First of all, I won't pretend I'm any good at it - I don't think I am. What I have been from the beginning is passionate about it. When my vicar asked me to be youth worker at the church, I left the vicarage, I went to Chorleywood Common, I sat on a log, and the prayer I prayed was: Lord, I ask that when I'm old and grey and sitting in my rocking chair, there'd be men and women serving you in lots of different places, and I would have the joy of knowing you let me play a little part in that. And that's what I know…that I've been for from the beginning. I don't do it very well, but what I try and do is spot them. I try to spot people who've got the heart. Of course there needs to be some gifting, but they've got to have heart, humility, a passion for Jesus, integrity. Those are not things that you easily build in if they're not there - they have to be there already. And they don't have to be perfect. They just have to want to serve Jesus…Whether it's worship leaders, or people for leadership, teaching, preaching, evangelism - the main thing is to give them space and to trust them...I think with young people, it's being committed not for three days but for three years, and more than three years…

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Slipstream Podcast 14: Chris Wright

Dr Chris Wright is International Director of the Langham Partnership and chair of the Lausanne Committee's Theology Working Group. He has written several books including The Mission of God and the recent The God I Don't Understand. Chris and his wife, Liz, have four adult children and three grandchildren.

Here is a taster from Chris's podcast interview:

Are there one or two issues you can think of that are the top, hot issues in theology worldwide at the moment?

One that is inevitably going to continue to be an issue is the uniqueness of Jesus Christ. That will always be a core issue for Christian mission simply because it always has been, ever since the New Testament. What does it mean to say that Jesus is Lord, that Jesus alone is the incarnate God, Jesus alone is the saviour? That inevitably leads into other directions, and one of them is: what about the question of truth and truth claims, and how does one affirm issues of authority and truth within a culture or cultures which have moved very much away from that as being legitimate in any sense. That's the apologetic dimension. Thirdly it leads in the direction of what about the truth claims of other faiths? How do we relate to people of other faiths...What does it mean to love my neighbour, who may be a person of another faith, rather than simply to regard these people as enemies of the gospel or enemies of Christ or enemies of Christians.

Read Chris Wright's recent Lecture in World Christianity at Redcliffe College

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Slipstream Podcast 13: Alan Hirsch

Alan Hirsch is an author, trainer, strategist and missional church leader from Australia. He is the author of The Forgotten Ways as well as the The Shaping of Things to Come and the recent ReJesus, both of which he co-wrote with Michael Frost.

Here is a taster from Alan's interview:

What would you say to a pastor or leader of a traditional church who sees the need for missional church and wants to transition, and yet is stuck in a very institutional structure?

One of the biggest problems we have is the issue of imagination. It's how we conceive of ourselves in the world and of our function. So the first battle to be won is on the level of paradigm or imagination. If I use the phrase "idea of church", we operate largely in the West on the "idea of church" that has been developed out of the 17th century, which stems primarily from Constantine and his deal with the church. That has really framed the way we see ourselves fundamentally. And it's very hard to see ourselves beyond that…So the first step in helping a congregation is to begin to see themselves differently. This is not an easy task, but it is a critical task because unless we actually recalibrate on that level, we're just going to reproduce what we currently know…

The other thing I would say is that you have to then get the collective will, particularly of leadership, to make a choice to move in that direction and the political will to see it through. That will require a plan and a change management that could go as long as ten years. And I don't mind that, it's all right, it doesn't matter, because if we approximate missional church, we're becoming better all the time. The church has all the potential in it, it simply means that leadership has got to help the church to become missional…It's a challenge, and some people are not going to like it. You have to wear it, and be willing to possibly lose some members in order to grow again…

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Slipstream Podcast 12: Gary Habermas and Tim Keller

Gary Habermas is Distinguished Professor and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Theology at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia in the USA, and a known expert on Christ's resurrection. He is married to Eileen and they have seven children and nine grandchildren.

Tim Keller is founder and senior pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City which has spawned an international church planting movement. He is also the author of the bestselling apologetics book The Reason for God as well as the recent The Prodigal God. He is married to Kathy and they have three sons.

Here is a taster of Gary's interview:

As you look at the whole wide sweep of the Church and Christianity, what do you think will be the biggest single intellectual challenge that we'll face in the next few years?

If I had to pick something, I'd pick postmodernism. I don't think it's new atheism…I would say that postmodernism is still here, but my experience is that most postmodernists will not say, contrary to popular opinion – not even Derrida, definitely not Foucault – they won't say things like, you can't know anything. They'd never say that. And Foucault is an historian - in his book The Archaeology of Knowledge, he gives rules like I would use. I think they're saying, be very careful what you do, but you can do it. So I think we should be very careful. I think the average postmodernist today doesn't say you can't get anything. They just say don't be totally certain, be open to my questions, and within those parameters you can do it. I'm happy to move in those parameters. But I still think that's the biggest threat right now.

And of Tim's interview:

What would you say to younger leaders who want to get started in apologetics?

In the area of philosophy – I don't know about the UK, but I know in America – there's been something of a renaissance of Christians – Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant –who have become philosophers. Of all the members of the American Philosophical Association, which is about 10,000 people who basically are academic philosophers – the guess is that 10-20% are now orthodox Christians. A generation ago it would have been close to zero. Reasons for that are complex and I can't go into them because I don't know them. But you'll find that there's not a lot of of theological pastors and theologians writing good apologetics as much as there are great Christian philosophers writing it, like Alvin Plantinga and Nicholas Wolterstorff … I would say actually look at Christian philosophers right now, they're writing really sharp apologetics.

Gary recommends reading Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ.

Tim recommends reading Michael Murray, ed. Reason for the Hope Within.

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Slipstream Podcast 11 - Tim Hughes

Tim Hughes is Director of Worship at Holy Trinity Brompton Church in London. He is also a songwriter with Survivor Records and heads up Worship Central, a worship training resource. He is married to Rachel and they have two children (including a newborn!).

Here's a taster of Tim's podcast interview:

As you look to the next generation of Christians growing up, what are the concerns that you have and what really excites you about this generation?

What excites me is that we're seeing more and more young people coming through who are really seizing the moment and going for it. I meet some amazing people doing crazy things – travelling off, years out, starting Alpha courses in their school, preaching in front of pubs. I think people are really being creative and sensing that call to go. The danger comes when they think "I'm too young, I've got to wait till I'm old enough to serve God." Actually, no, we can all do it. That excites me – the level of creativity and passion and sacrifice. I think it's going to become harder and harder to have a faith in this country. We're seeing it already with different things in the church being opposed. I guess the thing is, will we be willing to really sacrifice, give it all, make a stand when it's really hard to do that? The other thing is, you look at our generation and there's a lot of apathy, and not being affected by that is going to be a challenge. That we keep faithful for the long haul. We're seeing so many leaders, people falling from grace. What we need to see are young leaders who will serve God faithfully for the long haul, who choose to pursue purity and generosity and authenticity and really give of themselves to serve week-in, week-out, year after year, so that when we're all old and wrinkly we're still serving with the same amount of passion.

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Slipstream Podcast 10 - Ruth Valerio

Ruth Valerio runs A Rocha's Living Lightly 24:1 initiative. She lives with her husband and two young daughters in Chichester, England. When she's not speaking on the Bible and ethical issues, Ruth enjoys working on her allotment, and minding chickens and pigs.

Here is a taster from Ruth's podcast interview:

What was it that first alerted you as a Christian to environmental issues?

The first thing that I can remember was in my church, probably about 10 years ago. There were a couple of people there who were really interested in environmental issues. Some people listening might remember an initiative called something like God’s Earth (I don’t remember what it was called now) years and years ago, and one of those people was from my church, and they put together a lifestyle audit thing, a tick list you could go through to see how green you are, and you could add up your scores and see how many points you scored at the end. And when I did it, I couldn’t tick a single one of those things. It was obvious stuff now, like recycling glass, using low energy light bulbs, buying locally, that kind of thing. I couldn’t do a single one of them, and I was so horrified - it really acted like a smack. This was really before I began to understand why it was important, but something was telling me that it was. So I thought, actually, I need to do something about this. I set myself the goal of working through this questionnaire until I could tick every single one of them, and realised from the go that I could never achieve it if I tried to do it all at once. And so I decided I would do one thing. When I drove to the supermarket I would take my glass and I would recycle it there. Looking back on it now it sounds so pathetic, but that was the first thing I did! As I did that, I noticed that next to the glass recycling was paper recycling and tin recycling, and so I thought, oh, I could do that at the same time. And then I started to think, what about changing my light bulbs, and maybe I could do this, etc etc…It was like a rolling stone. Once I started, I began to see all these other issues, and I began gradually bit by bit to adopt them and bring them into my lifestyle until they became a normal part of what I did rather than something I really had to think about.

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Slipstream Podcast 9 - Steve Timmis

Steve Timmis is the founder of The Crowded House network of churches in Sheffield, and of The Porterbrook Network training. He was the founding Director of Radstock Ministries and the founder of Northern Training, a Bible training course aimed at equipping Christians for Bible teaching. With Tim Chester, Steve is the author of 'Total Church: a radical reshaping around Gospel and Community.'

Here is a taster from Steve's podcast interview:

Over the years you’ve been working with Crowded House, what’s been the biggest problem that you’ve faced?

The biggest problem has been living consistently with our convictions. We build our life around what we call values that are responsible for creating a particular distinctive culture. But they’re aspirational, so it’s living consistently with them that’s the most difficult thing. We make a big thing about living our life together as God’s people. Jesus said: "All men will know you are disciples if you love one another." We want to take that very seriously. But loving one another is very difficult, and loving one another day by day in the nitty-gritty of life, not just on a Sunday for an hour and a half, is even more difficult. So it’s the basic elements of discipleship that are difficult and the most challenging, and yet the most glorious when you see the Holy Spirit take God’s word and apply it to our hearts and change us and disciple us through our relationships with each other.

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Slipstream Podcast 8 - Mark Driscoll

Mark Driscoll has been nominated as one of the 50 most influential pastors in America, and is the founder of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, the Paradox Theater, and the Acts 29 Network which has planted scores of churches. Mark is the author of The Radical Reformission and Confessions of a Reformission Rev. He speaks extensively around the country, has lectured at a number of seminaries, and has had wide media exposure. He’s a staff religion writer for the Seattle Times. Along with his wife and children, Mark lives in Seattle.

Website: http://www.theresurgence.com
             http://www.marshillchurch.org

Here is a taster from the podcast interview:

If you were talking to one younger missional church leader and you could recommend just one book to them, other than the Bible, what would it be?

Honestly, it would be the Bible. I’d tell them to really look at the book of Nehemiah which I think is an urban rebuilding effort. I would encourage them as well to spend a lot of time studying the book of Jonah and looking at God’s heart for a very difficult nation. I would tell them to look at Daniel and how he conducted himself in Babylon, and Joseph and how he conducted himself in Egypt. So I know I didn’t really answer the question, but I guess that’s the answer to the question!

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Slipstream Podcast 7 - Brian Walsh and Sylvia Keesmaat

The husband-wife duo Brian Walsh and Sylvia Keesmaat have co-authored Colossians Re:mixed: Subverting the Empire and (forthcoming) Romans Disarmed. Sylvia is adjunct professor of Biblical Studies and Hermeneutics at the Institute for Christian Studies in Toronto. Brian is the co-author of Transforming Vision and Truth is stranger than it used to be (with Richard Middleton).

Here is a taster of their podcast interview:

If you could change one thing about how Christians today interact with the Bible, what would it be?

Brian Walsh: One thing would be that we need to read the Scriptures as offering us a liberating and alternative worldview - by which I don’t just mean a framework of thinking, but rather an alternative imagination, shaping us so deeply. If every time we read the Scriptures they seem to confirm us in what we already believe, we’re probably misreading the Scriptures. If when we read the Scriptures we’re never upset, we’re probably misreading the Scriptures. All Scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching and correction and reproof, and we need that correction and reproof. We have to liberate the Scriptures from two bad kinds of readings. One is the individualism we’ve been talking about. We have to hear this as God’s story and God’s revelation for the shaping of all creation and a whole new humanity in creation. A second thing would be that we have to liberate the Scriptures from the shackles of dogma. Yes, the Scriptures are there to teach us certain kinds of things, but I think what we do is, we criticise the Catholics because they have a magisterium that functions as the interpretive rule upon the Scriptures. Evangelicals have a “magisterium”. It may be justification by faith. It’s usually rooted in a bad reading of Romans, and that’s why we’re presently doing a new book called Romans Disarmed, trying to offer an alternative reading of Romans. I think that the Scriptures are shackled when they become a text of systematic theology as opposed to a living narrative, the testimony of the living community and what God is doing in that community.

Sylvia Keesmaat: Just to follow on from that - Brian talked about the Scriptures being a living narrative. I think the one thing that needs to happen is that people need to stop reading the Bible in atomised bits as books. There’s this book here, there’s this passage here, and nothing relates. This is a continuous story from start to finish, from Genesis to Revelation. And that story has the beginning of a plot, and that plot unfolds. It’s about how God relates to the world, about this good creation that goes dramatically wrong, and evil and curse and sin coming into that world. The whole story is God interacting with creation and a community to bring blessing, to bring redemption into that brokenness and into that sinful situation. Until we start to see the whole book as a story that is continuous, that unfolds, that comes to its climax in Jesus - until we get a sense of that narrative, we’re never going to really know how to live out of the story. We’re going to be trying to use the Bible as an example or a rule book, and it’s not a helpful rule book, and the examples are quite frankly terrible if you read the Old Testament carefully. We need to embody the story, and we can’t do that until we know the story very, very well.

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Slipstream Podcast 6 - Brian McLaren

Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, pastor, and networker among Christian leaders. From 1978 to 1986, McLaren taught college English, and in 1982, he helped form Cedar Ridge Community Church, a nondenominational church in the Baltimore-Washington region. He served as its pastor until 2006 and is now a popular conference speaker and a frequent guest lecturer at seminaries and denominational gatherings, nationally and internationally. He is the author of several books including A New Kind of Christian (2001), A Generous Orthodoxy (2004), and The Secret Message of Jesus (2006).

Here's a taster of Brian's podcast interview:

What are some of the challenges and temptations of being on the road that younger leaders need to be aware of?

I think that to be a pastor of a local church - and not just a pastor but a layperson part of a local community - and to be living your faith in a neighbourhood is really where the action is. What happens to some people is that they get this celebrity mindset - people who write books, people who speak at conferences. I used to feel this way. I would feel that those are the important people, and I’m not important. And then the people on the road, they can start to think: “I’m the important person, and they’re not.” And all of that is insanity, it’s stupidity, it’s dangerous, it’s destructive.

In my mind, the most important people in the kingdom of God are the people who are working among the poor, the people who are taking care of those who are mentally ill, the people who are serving the least of these. We have to turn the whole importance pyramid upside down. That’s what happens in the kingdom of God. It’s not the most famous, it’s the humblest – the last are first. We’ve actually got to believe that. I would say that would be really important.

I’m so grateful that God did not allow me to get any notoriety at a younger age. It would have been so bad for my soul. And I think that’s another thing that we ought to help people to do - to really be suspicious of all of our definitions of success...

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Slipstream podcast 5 - David Jackman

David Jackman is an internationally renowned speaker, President of the Proclamation Trust, and founder of the Cornhill Training Course. He was previously minister of Above Bar Church in Southampton and also served with the Universities and Colleges Christian Fellowship (UCCF). In 1974 he wrote his first short book, Starting as a Student: A Christian Approach, an 88 page pocketbook designed to prepare students for University or College life. David has written many books, most recently Opening up the Bible (Scripture Union publishing, 2006) and Spirit of Truth (Christian focus publications, 2006). Both Proclamation Trust and Cornhill Training Course exist to encourage and inspire expository preaching and have raised the bar in the level of preaching in this country.

Here’s a taster of David’s podcast interview:

How can we make sure the next generation of leaders are coming through? What should the current generation be doing to pass on leadership to the next generation? 

I think it's really important. Part of our ministry is raising up the next generation in every church. I would say to any current pastor: who are the young people in your church who you're spotting with ministry gifts? Where are the younger people with hearts to serve, and what are you doing to encourage them? 

I think we can do all sorts of things like that. We can have training courses within the church, or we can let them loose in ministry in the local church, in our town or area, summer camps, house parties, evangelistic missions - all to give them experience. I think what actually gets people into ministry is experience of ministry. The more experience we can give to young people, the better. But it needs to be supervised, there needs to be feedback, they need to be supported in doing it, and we need to go through it with them and say, for example: “That talk didn't really work, did it?” Then we should ask why it didn’t work and help them to understand what has gone wrong as well as what has gone right. 

If pastors and church leaders could see this as a major part of their own ministry, that would be enormously healthy…………

David recommends two key books:

How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth by Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart

Knowing God By J.I. Packer

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Slipstream Podcast 4 - Michael Frost

Michael Frost is a missional church leader from Australia, well known around the world as an inspiring and provocative speaker on how to face the challenge of our times, the future of the church and what direction it should be taking. Author of Exiles: Living missionally in a post-Christian culture and co-author (with Alan Hirsch) of The Shaping of Things to Come: Innovation and Mission for the 21st Century Church, Michael provides us with an interesting take on what it means to be a missional church and gives advice for the next generation of church leaders.

Here's a taster from Mike's podcast interview:

What is the one thing you would say to the next generation of Christian leaders?

If I had to just say one thing it would be to re-discover in scripture God’s great missional plot that begins at the very moment of creation and runs like a thread right through the whole of scripture, culminating in the person of Jesus and then continuing to unravel even to this day. If we rediscover that one continuous story, that missional plot, missional story, and rediscover the idea that God’s people are always people that are acting up, who are always subverting the status quo and never satisfied with the world, we discover something important about who we are as the people of God rather than members of some institution within western culture. And it is then that we might re-discover our much more prophetic and apostolic calling.

Michael recommends reading A Reader's Guide to Transforming Mission by Stan Nussbaum - available to buy from Amazon

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Slipstream Podcast 3 - Bishop Tom Wright

Bishop Tom Wright, Bishop of Durham, is a prolific author and, for some, one of the most influential theologians of our time. His books include The Resurrection of the Son of God, the Everyone Bible series and most recently Surprised by Hope. In this month’s podcast we ask Bishop Tom to share lessons he has learnt since being in Christian leadership as well as his advice to the next generation of leaders and his thoughts on Heaven.

Here’s a taster from the podcast interview:

What’s the most important thing the current generation of leaders can do to invest in next generation?

What I’d really want to do is say to the next generation, I want you to know your Bibles inside out and upside down in the original languages as thoroughly as you can. I also want you to get on your knees and learn how to pray and not just 5 minutes here and there but serious prayer for God’s world, God’s people, for anything and everything that’s going onwards. And the third thing is I want you to learn how to love people. Some people are naturally loving and they may need to learn other dimensions, some people are a bit shy and don’t quite know how to do it or they don’t terribly like people that much & if you’re going to be a Christian leader - the bible, prayer and loving people.

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Slipstream Podcast 2 - Shane Claiborne

Shane Claiborne is the leader of The Simple Way, a radical faith community that lives among and serves the homeless in North Philadelphia. Shane spent 3 weeks in Baghdad during the recent Iraq war and describes himself as an "extremist for love." Shane has worked with Mother Teresa in India and Bill Hybels in the United States. His best selling book "Irresistible Revolution" is published by Zondervan and a sample chapter is available for download. Shane recently spoke at the Salvation Army's Roots conference.

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Slipstream Podcast 1 - Terry Virgo

Terry Virgo (1940-) is the leader of the New Frontiers family of churches. Born and raised in Brighton, Virgo started a small church movement which has grown into an international group of churches in 29 nations. He recently spoke at New Word Alive and is the author of over 14 books.

What are the key things you have learned in your years of ministry?

"I remember God saying to me early on in my ministry that my first calling is to be a worshipper and to always remember that as a priority. That puts everything in perspective. Be a worshipper: however well it is going, however badly it is going. I have tried to keep focussed on Jesus and enjoy him for myself. Anything else is a bonus. ...."

One of the key issues is passing on leadership to the next generation. What principles do you use to pass on well.

"We follow the biblical pattern of Paul and Timothy who worked together. ... The way we have tried to train up leaders is in a living working context wherever possible, rather than going away to academic centres. Not that we despise knowledge but we prioritise working alongside. ... We like to encourage people to take a year or two as a training programme working in churches including theological and practical skills training but also carrying responsibility as well as learning principles. ..."

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