--- title: Being Human S4 E08 - Natalie Williams date: 2023-09-21T06:00:00+01:00 author: Emma sowden canonical_url: "https://www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/being-human/being-human-podcast-season-four/being-human-s4-e08" section: Pages --- Being a disciple of Jesus is not about becoming like the people around us, it’s about becoming more like Him – so why are most western churches predominantly middle class? Having grown up in relative poverty in a deprived seaside town, Natalie Williams’ life was changed when she became a Christian at age 15. Now she is the chief executive of Jubilee+, a national Christian charity that seeks to equip Christians and churches to alleviate poverty and injustice in their communities. Natalie joins Jo and Peter in this episode for a conversation on class, culture and learning to celebrate difference and diversity. As the co-author of several books, including *Invisible Divides* which explores some of the barriers to belonging in the church, Natalie is passionate about recognising the image of God in everyone, and how the church can practically become a place of overflowing mercy. To hear more about Natalie, discover her books and the work of Jubille+, head to their [website](https://jubilee-plus.org/). --- [](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/being-human/id1496941438 "Listen on Apple Podcasts") [](https://open.spotify.com/show/7q1mD7LHIQ8KMIKFykjA6x "Listen on Spotify") [](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL2VhdWsvZmVlZC54bWw= "Listen on Google Podcasts") --- **Part one (00:00)** 00:56 – Introducing Natalie: from the teenager who wasn’t looking for faith, to the woman who now champions the power of Jesus to change the world through His church. 04:04 – Understanding class barriers and belonging: are we to conform to the image of a middle-class Christian? Or to the image of Jesus? 07:34 – Learning to reconcile class differences with a God who doesn’t want us to move away from our cultures and contexts, nor ignore our differences. 11:36 – Trying to unpick values that reflect God vs values that reflect culture, learning first from the Bible and then one another. **Part two (17:34)** 17:34 – Class, gender, singleness – how can we better understand multiple and intersecting barriers to belonging? 21:00 – Becoming thick-skinned yet soft-hearted – learning to recognise the plank in our own eye and host spaces where people feel they are welcome. 29:50 – Practically, how do we maintain communities of difference? [ ![About Being Human](data:image/svg+xml;charset=utf-8,%3Csvg%20xmlns%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg%27%20width%3D%271%27%20height%3D%271%27%20style%3D%27background%3Atransparent%27%2F%3E) ![About BH](https://eauk.org/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,quality=90,width=400,fit=cover/https://cdn.eauk.org/About-BH.png) ](https://www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/being-human/about-being-human) [#### About Being Human ](https://www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/being-human/about-being-human) The Being Human project helps everyday Christians to live out and share the biblical vision of what it means to be human. [ Find out more ](https://www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/being-human/about-being-human) [](https://www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/being-human/about-being-human) [ ![Being Human S4 E07 - Damilola Makinde](data:image/svg+xml;charset=utf-8,%3Csvg%20xmlns%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg%27%20width%3D%271%27%20height%3D%271%27%20style%3D%27background%3Atransparent%27%2F%3E) ![BH S4 E Aweb banners 4](https://eauk.org/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,quality=90,width=400,fit=cover/https://cdn.eauk.org/BH-S4-EAweb-banners-4_2023-09-13-142121_tzco.png) ](https://www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/being-human/being-human-podcast-season-four/being-human-s4-e07) [#### Being Human S4 E07 - Damilola Makinde ](https://www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/being-human/being-human-podcast-season-four/being-human-s4-e07) How can we better understand our identity, our home, and one another? [ Listen now ](https://www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/being-human/being-human-podcast-season-four/being-human-s4-e07) [](https://www.eauk.org/what-we-do/initiatives/being-human/being-human-podcast-season-four/being-human-s4-e07)